On Sunday, several children (as well as some adults) died in a plane crash in Montana…500 feet away from the runway, nonetheless.
It makes me sick to my stomach. It makes my heart hurt.It also makes me wonder, not necessarily if God exists; I'll allow for that possibility...
It makes me wonder what the hell kind of being this God is.
Don't tragedies like this make you wonder?
Believers will tell you that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omnisci...Omnisee...um...and Omni-Knowing.
Even if I stipulate to those three things as fact, that doesn't necessarily make God Omni-Beneficent.
Why didn’t he save those little kids? Why didn’t he raise his almighty hand and guide the plane safely to the airport?
Well, some may say that through their death those around them will appreciate life more. It will show them that life is fleeting, and they should make the most of it.
And...That those kids are now with the Lord in Heaven and some day, just like the kids, your suffering will pass and Heaven will seem even more glorious than can be imagined.
Fuck that.
If The Almighty is using kids (or anyone for that matter) in this manner and for those reasons, he's nothing more than a Madison Avenue marketing magician.
Dostoyevsky, one of my all-time faves, once stated that if God is using the death of children to fertilize the garden of life, he is not all-good.
I agree...Anyone, whether it be me, you, or The Almighty, who uses others, is far from all-good, and in a word, sucks.
Of course, this use of others is a two way street. So called people of piety use God all of the time.
In his name, they attempt to make law, shame others, and try to collect a tidy personal fortune along the way.
Uh-huh. These people are using God, Jeebus, and others to create a little Heaven on Earth.
And, maybe that's the master plan. People like Benny Hinn and Joyce Meyer use God, and God uses others...each with their own purposes.
Perhaps, God did make man in His image, and God looks and acts alot like Billy Mays or Ron Popeil.
And maybe, when one's life on Earth is done, he or she is transported to God's Kingdom where they live 24/7 in a late night infomercial for all eternity.If this is God's plan for me....If this really is as "good" as he gets...
I may as well place my Bible in the closet, and Just Set It and Forget It.
Cheers!!
P.S. Today is Meg's (Prefers Her Fantasy Life) Birthday. She stopped by Bagwine briefly a couple of weeks ago and I got to meet her.
She is complaining about being older, but trust me...She's hot and it appeared that she has great boobies. So, click HERE and go wish Meg and her boobies a Happy Birthday!!
83 comments:
Yours is an age old question, my friend, pondered by millions at just such times.
I have no answer, but I have posed the question myself at times when I couldn't understand why things had happened.
I've been told by good priests, "God doesn't want a child to die any more than he wants anyone to die. It is just a fact of life based on man's free will and the way events play out."
I dunno. Do I accept that? I guess in a way I do because I continue to believe in the goodness and blessings of God. My faith is what has sustained me through my darkest hours, and as you know, I've gone through many, many of those in the past few weeks.
It is good to question. It is was makes us stronger, and, ultimately, solidifies our faith.
Songbird: Eh, the tragedy and suffering of others doesn't make me or my faith stronger. It just pisses me off for awhile. Even if it was a tragedy that personally affected me.
As for man's free will, I don't know what that has to do with a child dying in a plane crash or from SIDS or anything else. An infant has no free will to speak of.
If God wanted only the best for his "children" he would eradicate birth defects. That after all, impedes a child's free will. Cheers!!
If we are going to hold God responsible for the death of 7 kids on a plane we have to hold him responsible for the Holocaust. Sometimes I think these small acts get to us because we can not wrap our brains around 6 million.
Do I think there is a God? Yes I do. But I don't think he stacks the deck one way or another as far as humans go.
We have free will and with that comes choices. Large and small. The butterfly effect and all that.
Blaming God is pointless. Sometimes shit just happens. Having someone to blame makes it easier for us to deal with I suppose. But I think the cold hard fact of the matter bad things happen just cause they happen and there is no one to blame.
The other plane wreck in the news this weekend...the Fed Ex pane in Tokyo was piloted by the husband of one of our employees as well as the father of two others. It was grim today.
Starr: Sorry to hear about the connection.
So, if we cannot blame him for anything bad that goes wrong, should we refuse to give him praise when things go well. If that's the case, what is the purpose of God? Cheers!!
Back when I was a church going person (not long ago) and that tsunami hit, killing thousands, my church class showed a 30 min sit-com style video about why bad things happen to good people. It is, supposedly, all the fault of other people... so I posed the question, "what about natural disaster".
A very pious woman that I have a lot of admiration for told me that it was so we could help them.
"Excuse me? I'm a thirty-year-old man who just lost every member of his three generational family in one mighty smack from God and you're going to tell me that it happened so you can help me?"
I can still see the look on her face and I'm ashamed of myself, but still, I don't get it. I'm suffering a crises of faith. I want that warm blanket back but I just can't seem to get there again.
In order to live, it must die.
What's the big deal?
Nothing to believe here.
Live and die!
Nope he gets no praise for random acts of kindness either other than credit for those 10 little rules of his.
As to his purpose if you look at the 10 commandants as well as the life and actions of Jesus, I think God serves as a guidepost. A light if you will. We all know what is right even if it is not what we want to do. Do we go with the light or give in to the dark?
Marilyn: You shouldn't feel ashamed for your inquiry. It's a perfectly rational question, and one I ask all of the time. I hope you find your blanket again, no matter what form it might take. Cheers Marilyn!!
So Simple: I don't disagree with your assessment. Being a minimalist, I like it. Cheers!!
Starr: So if he gets praise for neither good nor bad, he exists merely as an example of what is right and wrong?
We may all know right from wrong, but that varies from culture to culture and from family to family. In practicality absolute truth has and is being determined by man.
Those who wrote the Holy Texts, those who interpret it, and those whose proselytize. I don't see God anywhere in that equation. Cheers!!
I too take issue with people who blame/glorify/justify their actions as Gods will. Please!!! We are all thinking beings and sometimes our thinking is just plain wrong.
It is very sad when accidents happen and I can only imagine the pain the families are experiencing. My heart goes out to them but this was not Gods will. It was a tragic accident. The one thing that it does for me is to serve as a reminder to make sure that my loved ones know with out a doubt that I love them.
Michele: I agree with most of everything you just said, except for one thing...Not all of us are "thinking" beings. The world is full of a whole lot of stupid. Cheers!!
It is 100% completly the fault of the pilot!
The plane was overloaded. 10 seats with 14 people and their winter gear. He knew, and he took the chance, probably without the guests even knowing. Add a little ice on the wings...... plane won't fly.
Read the Bible(the whole thing) and decide for yourself Matt. Whether it's 10 kids dying in a cold Montana field, an 8 month old fetus being ripped out of his mother's snatch because she thinks it's her "choice"(and yes God gave her that choice, right or wrong), or some Islamic street hack blowing up a school in the Gaza, so he can blame the Jews...or some 98 year old women choking to death while going down on her 104 year old husband, shit happens!
It's a cold cruel world, plenty of blame to spread around, but most of it can be pointed straight at the human race. God/Jesus are not care takers of this world, he gave that up a couple thousand years ago.
Don't Worry, be Happy! It will all work out in the end.
Micky: That goes back to the Free Will angel and I completely understand that argument, and the logic of it. But it does throw into play a question...
How can an all-Powerful being like God, who has no Free will, create beings with Free Will? i.e. If God is all-Good, how can he allow pain and suffering to exist due to the actions or inactions of man? Cheers!!
If there is a god, I don't think she's an interfering god.
I prefer to think of god as nature, both outside of us and inside of us.
And...thank you. I'm glad you like my boobies.
Hoot: Hoooooot, I was thinking about you the other day. I've read the Bible back and forth.
On your abortion example...Are you saying God provided that life and the mother snatched it away sinfully? How about those who are, in their God-Given state, unable to have kids and produce through invitro-fertilization...Isn't that an affront to God's plan as well?
As for the Muslim hack, all he has to do is accept Jesus before dying and all of those murders are forgiven?
For someone who is allegedly perfect, God seems to be one inconsistent mutha. Cheers Hoot!!
Fantasy: Ya think she is all around, eh?
Well Happy B-Day Meg, and I'll tell you. Although I didn't see your girls but masked by your clothes, I could tell those puppies looked like something formed by the hands of God. ; ) Cheers Meg!!
So, if we cannot blame him for anything bad that goes wrong, should we refuse to give him praise when things go well. If that's the case, what is the purpose of God?
Ahhhh .... but just how many really do give praise as equally as they give condemnation. Damn it! *we* are responsible for the good stuff - it's our hard work - we deserve it! But the bad stuff? That's *all* God's fault!
Dana: From a logic standpoint, if God is all-powerful, and from what I assume you are facetiously pointing out, I gather you believe we should give God credit for the good things. I'll go with that in this instance, however...
If he is all-Good and powerful, isn't His non-intervention upon the bad things that happen, a fatal flaw in the premise that he is all that and a bag of chips, or communion wafers, whatever the case may be? Cheers!!
A very intersting post and comments. It is always neat to see others views like this. I am of the faith that God did not cause this or do this to these people, it is not His will- just as he did not save the plane on the Hudson a while back. Shit happens, whether it be free will, human error, mechanical failure, etc. He is however there to help people through it. He has carried me through some very dark times in my life lifting my spirits with mini miracles, I guess as a result of thoat I can never doubt His existence or His grace.
Snugs: Why does he help some and not others? Some say that the Hudson River flight was a miracle...Why could have the Montana flight not ended in the same type of miracle?
I understand faith carrying you through difficult times, but was the light at the end of the tunnel a result of God or was your faith a kind of medicine that made things bearable while YOU worked through them? Cheers Snugs!!
You will have to ask those that believe God was the hero on the Hudson that question because I believe that Scully was the hero there.
The times that I have been struggling with life and my difficulties and have experienced instances of Grace were times when I had little faith or hope. They were times that He brought me back and and showed me that His will was much better than my way.
Snugs: But as many have said through this thread, the bad and the good exist because we choose certain paths. It is our Free Will that dictates what happens.
If that's the case, you pulled yourself through the difficulties yourself, just as the pilot landed the plane to safety through his skill and determination.
Where does God's power come into these scenarios? Cheers Snugs!!
...in my humble opinion God does not "allow" things to happen any more than he prevents them...we are possesed of a little something called Free Will...and, by golly, Hoot is right: Shit Happens...
Phfrankie: Well, let me ask you this...Does God have a plan for us? Cheers!!
...no plan...Free Will...
I think we are left to our own devices in this life..I've seen miracles happen but there I don't know why some get saved and others don't.
Phfrankie: So the All-Knowing Man upstairs doesn't know how we'll turn out? I guess he's not All-Knowing. Cheers!!
Hammer: I hear ya. Why do some seem to be the recipient of so-called miracles and others aren't? Cheers Hammer!!
Couple of points.
With out bad, good is meaningless.
If miracles happened every day they wouldn't be all that miraculous.
We don't recognize or give God credit on a daily basis. If we did, we give him a shout out every time we saw the ocean, a flower, the moon or a sunset. And very few people stop to even NOTICE those things on a daily basis. Cause I too think that God more in a tree or the ocean or a field of wheat than he is is a building just cause man calls it a church.
Who said God has to have a point for us? Isn't that rather narcissistic to think some all knowing being needs to provide us with something other than life? Isn't that enough of a point?
Starr: You kinda sound like Frank Burns, who said...
"Without war, you wouldn't know what peace is." I could do without war and enjoy peace.
As for being narcissitic, if I am expected to honor and love a jealous being without question, screw God, I'll move back in with the ex. Cheers!!
I didn't say anything about worshiping without question. In fact I think too much is made of the whole worship and, frankly, lenten fasting shit. I think people WAY TOO MUCH TIME thinking about God and singing him songs and offering up prayers and blowing shit up in his name. Just shut the fuck up and live right.
If God really gives a rat's ass if I eat bacon, fuck him and give me the marshmallows for s'mores in hell.
Peace without the knowledge of war sounds fun, except I think we would all end up a bunch of weird ass stepford people out of some 60's Star Trek episode.
Starr: The worshipping thing without question isn't coming from a church angle. It's from the God angle.
God says that you shall not worship any God before him. He's jealous, angry, and will smite you...but He loooooves you. Just ask George Carlin.
And by the way, I know exactly what Star Trek episode of which you speak; I am an aficianado (sp.) of the original series. Just ask Schmoop, who loathes it. Cheers!!
Sad event --the plane crash.
I have no desire to fly in a private plane like that. Commercial flights get me there just fine.
You wanna work God into that equation, go ahead. But I tend no to.
Kanani: Sad, indeed. But how can one not work in the role of God into the equation? Especially when God loves ALL his children and then says in a way, "Oh well." Cheers!!
Live Long and Prosper, Fellow Trekkie! My first ex husband and my semi sort ex dragged me to a Star Trek convention. Oh. My. God.
And Trek owns Wars. Period.
Your quote would work if I actually thought the bible was anything more than a fairy tale or Aesops Fables with some behavioral guidelines.
Especially the Old (hey lets run out the matriarichal patrons cause we have penii) Testiclement.
The psalms are beautiful and some of the scripture is as well but in general I don't give the bible any more weight than my own good judgement. If that makes me a heathen so be it. There is a whole lotta talk in the religious community and not enough do.
And the money hungry preachers are the worst. To quote Bono "the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister."
Starr: The original Star Trek is the pinnacle. Less effects, more story line.
I had a Bono quote in this post originally. I was going to use, "The God I know, doesn't need my money."
I like Psalms alot, but get over it folks, David was gay. Cheers!!
Total swish ;)
You have no love for Next Generation? I loves me some Picard.
Starr: Picard is a Shatner wannabe. Cheers!!
See I love them in different ways. The Shat is high frickin comedy. I know it was not intentional. Todd and I used to get drunk and talk like Kirk in bars to the other patrons and our bartenders.
"Bar...keep. Another....beer. Ifyou.....please"
Starr: Comedy? Shatner? Let's see Picard take down the Gorn or Khan for that matter. I think not. Cheers!!
Is this the place to insert, ours is not to question why...
Like I said I love them differently. And yes The Shat is high frickin comedy. For that matter so is his singing. And let's not start on Nimoys!
No offence Lu but that whole ours is not to question why is the mindset that leads to Holocausts. God gave us a brain that learns by asking questions.
You damn skippy I am going to question why. Should I die and end up in heaven and god is Charleton Heston or Alanis Morisstte (depending on your cinematic preference) I have a SHIT ton of "why's" I want answered.
Lu: I can't live with that mindset. I HAVE to ask. Cheers Pal!!
Starr: Shatner is NOT comedy; He's a misunderstood dramatic genius. AND, if Alanis was God, I would eat at her table any day. Although at times, it looks like she needs a bath. Cheers!!
This discussion has filled me with an overwhelming urge to watch Dogma. I love the Buddy Jesus.
This is the MOST bullshit conversation I have ever read on your blog.
GOD? gimmie a break.
All powerfull? what the fuck does that mean and what's anyone's definition of all powerfull?
I don't go for having to have excuses for anything we do.
Free Will! Phfrankies right!
Believe in what you want.....
it's your choice
Actually I think it is a pretty cool conversation. And never forget, Matty is an aquarian. We LOVE to play devil's advocate. Don't believe me? Look to his Kirk comments ;)
I believe in God. I just don't believe in organized religions version of God. Why should I? Just cause a bunch of dusty old farts wrote some stuff down?
God is what you think he is.
Starr: Buddy Christ, Rocks!! Cheers!!
Micky: The conversation about the existence and the goodness of God is bullshit? I think it's always fascianting. So man, has Free Will, as it has been said, do you believe in God? Cheers!!
Star I agree! He is what and if I want him to be. Nothing more!
I know he's just an alien!
See! you said goodness of god.
yes I think that's bullshit.
Talking and discussing god is bullshit to me.
I see your point Mickey as I have said the problem with most "Christians' is there is a lot of talk and not a lot of do. Sorry but sitting in a building mouthing words doesn't earn you Jeebus points with me.
Micky: Did God give you a wedgie in the 8th grade locker room? Cheers Mick!!
Starr: Organized religion sucks...I gotta take a nap. Cheers!!
Nap?!? Did you just Nap Taunt me?! You are a mean man! Just for that I am gonna have a burger for lunch ;P
Albert Einstein said, "God is subtle but he is not malicious."
I think the premise of your distress is based on the belief that death is bad. But the death of our corporeal existence in this reality is part of life, regardless of the calendar age a being might attain before shedding their physically limiting carcass.
We don't understand death, so we fear it. The infinity that stretches beyond. But what about the infinity that came before? Why don't we fear that?
Maybe God just doesn't give a shit? I mean, clearly he's not all good or Kurt Warner and Arizona would have won the Super Bowl.
And ever notice when people give examples of evil the throw in the "Muslim blowing up a school/flying planes into buildings" stuff, but always leave out the "Christians blowing up gov't buildings full of women and children" stuff? Weird, huh?
Even Billy Graham admitted that he couldn't explain the whole "Why do bad things happen" question. And I suspect he thought about that one often.
Of course, it's possible that everyone on that plane in Montana was an asshole. The guy who owned the plane was a dentist after all. ;-)
Well in all fairness Jay the Judeao Christian God is on the hook in Matt's post for dead kids and Hoots comment for killer geriatric blowjobs. Allah and Muhammod gotta get some shit slung at them in the name of equal opportunity.
Buddah seems to be getting a pass here. Probably cause he said, life is pain rise above. But Kali...that wench has some splainin' to do.
Sweeeet Comments. As I must be off to work I'll summarize...
Starr: Yes, I said nap, and I did. As I work odd hours, I have that luxury.
Rat: I don't fear death and I do understand it...If you're dead, you are no longer alive. Cheers Rat!!
Jay: Tha is funny, and you're right...Dentists blow. Cheers Jay!!
Starr: Buddha was always a bit simplisticly professorial for my liking. Cheers!!
ROFL...my Dad will love that line. He said Buddism attracted him cause it is "user friendly."
Oh and excuse my bacon cheeseburger burp. It was the grill special in our cafe today. God has spoken and he wants me to eat meat ;)
Starr: Ha...Excuse it? Hell I tried to sniff it thru my computer. Evidently your Dad rocks. Cheers Bay-by!!
Hey...what if God was one of us. Just a slob like... Oh never mind...
HAH! I almost went there, VE.
VE: I'd be worried if he was. Cheers VE!!
Starr: I am so beyond you two. Cheers!!
just thought I'd weigh in here...these are my beliefs...not necessarily what all Christians hold to be true.
God has given us not only free will but a world in which we live with the laws of nature.
It is hard to understand when innocent children...or a beloved brother...are taken so tragically, when horrible killers live a long life.
In a world where I give thanks to God for beauty...and for the gifts in my life...it is a staggering task beyond my ability to explain to two of my kids why God did not come thru with a miracle to cure their Mom from caner.
But I know that we the human race do not know...let alone understand...everything there is to know...yet.
We have learned SO MUCH more than we knew when the guy Jesus of Nazareth walked on Earth. How arrogant to think that we know everything at this moment in history. Surely most of us must admit there is more to learn.
There are many "religions" even Christian religions whose tenants I do not believe in. Those who claim to be "religious"...and prey on people...take advantage of our hearts....are not of God. Nor do they follow what His truth is.
I am not sure why the death of these families with their small children seem to hold more value...seem to call into question God's purpose and love..more than the tens of thousands of children enslaved in human trafficking all over the world. Tragic death happen every second of every day.
As far as God using the death of kids...or anything as a marketing ploy...or as other comments have relayed to make our good fortune more appreciated...or good Lord so those of faith can help them...I call anyone hear and now to show me in the Bible where that would noted.
Men and Women create rules and philosophies to exercise control. They may pretend to have direction of God....but they DO NOT.
It saddens me that so many people who have commented have been victim to those who claim to be speaking for God...who use His name to actually shun people from Him.
oh...and while Picsrd could totally kick Shatner's ass....Goerge Lucas is the king....
Kat: Very well thought out. Insightful, profound, and quite spiritual. However, the brilliant comedic timing of your second comment was the frickin' cat's ass. Ha. Cheers Kat!!
i totally disagree with a previous comment made on your post....
Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise could kick the living shit out of some queer sounding british bald guy (and i like bald guys)....named picard...
and the previous poster referred him as "shatner" and not even respecting the Kirk in him...
Kirk is The Shat and The Shat is Kirk. It's the reason there is a lil James Tiberius in everything The Shat has done after that.
Oh and George Lucas had ooodles of potential. And pissed it all away via Mannequin Skywalker and Jar Jar. Those three movies and the insertion (ahem) of aliens in the new Indy prooved to me once and for all that Georgie Boy is sublimating his alien anal probe fantasies via his movies.
Lol...marketing ploy. I like that. I still maintain that without the bad we would not appreciate the good as much as we do.
I never said that was God's plan. Just my own belief. Sleep in a shit bed for a week and then come home to your own. Bet you say "I love my bed" out loud.
I also think that without evil, goodness is rendered pointless. What goes up, must come down and Ka is a wheel. Stole that one from Stevie ;)
I also believe "The soul would have no rainbow...had the eye no tear"
people (not you star) keep trying to define God in human terms...attributing their limitations to an entity we can not define at this point in history.
However... I don't believe we get suffering doled out to us so we can appreciate the good....not saying you do...just sayin'
jeez I could NOT read to the end because the spin was giving me motion sickness
The 'splaining' makes no sense when it gets down to brass tacks sugar.
Lucas has done more for the world than Star Wars and Indiana Jones....
Lucasfilm
Skywalker Sound
Lucas Arts
Industrial Light and Magic....
to name a few.
although I bow to the genius and foresight of Roddenberry
Oh I totally agree Katherine, I don't think there is some tally board out there that decides to dock us so we can better appreciate the good times. And I certainly don't believe in a deity that would do that.
And I think what you said about trying to define him on human terms sums it up for me. We can't and it is supremely arrogant to think we can!
All those items you have listed are totally to George's credit...and then he writes dialogue :P
Wow you all rock with the comments, but I must say one thing. Teamster is correct, Shatner is Da Man!! Cheers All!! Oh, and TB, spinning is what I do.
Oh! And one more thing ...
I don't have issues with Christ, but with people - people like one of your commentors who wrote, "He has carried me through some very dark times in my life lifting my spirits with mini miracles, I guess as a result of thot I can never doubt His existence or His grace." yet find themselves on other blogs spewing hatred and judgment. That's not a God issue, but a man/woman issue!
Oh dear control freak Dana- I will not argue with you on others blogs when you delete and ignore my comments on your own blog- it is not a God issue, it is a Dana issue
Rowrrrrrrrrrrr. Cat Fight!! Cheers!!
That would indicate we are both pussies Matt-Man! I am offended *gigglesnort*
Dana: And men everywhere are happy about that fact. Cheers!!
You asked, "But how can one not work in the role of God into the equation?"
I answer, because deities are constructs created by humans to explain what they cannot cope with or do not understand.
As to The Shat vs Picard debate, cast my vote for The Shat.
Travis: I am happy to see that I could count on you on both counts. And especially, on The Shatner question. Cheers Trav!!
I have the same thoughts that you stated here after many years of being one of those bible believing Christians. There may be some sort of "God" but if he's the one that allows so much suffering then I don't like him.
Barbara: It is indeed hard not to doubt his perfection at times, let alone his existence. Cheers to ya!!
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