Thursday, August 05, 2010

Mosque at Ground Zero: Build It and Let God Sort It Out

“I clearly think Christianity is better, which is why I practice it, but that is not the reason I am against the masque (sic) at Ground Zero. I am against it because it would be a thorn in the eye of anyone who lost a loved one on 9-11.”

--Karen 7/26/2010

I dig Karen. Always have…even though she is a raging Republican. No, not a raging conservative, a raging, right wing Republican.

Someone who follows lock step with FOX News, Rushbo, and Sean Hannity.

I think Karen, my ol’ pal Uncle Charlie, and others of their political ilk, have lost their minds…especially when it comes to this “mosque” controversy in NYC.

Republicans like these two, and there are more than a handful, believe in America Uber Alles. They believe in Christianity Uber Alles. They “believe” in the Constitution Uber Alles.

They don’t follow all of those tenets, but two out of three ain’t bad.

I find it ironic that Karen, who is a lawyer by education, yet evidently is less than that by practice, is against the building of a mosque near the former World Trade Center buildings..

She can utter all the anti-Muslim crap she wants, but the law says that if zoning approves, the house, or in this case, the “mosque” shall stand.

Karen, and other Americans can say they will “hurt” if a mosque is built on this “sacred” or “hallowed” ground, but really, you need to get over your religious bigotry.

You need to get over yourselves and your unfounded agony and treatment of one of the world’s oldest religions.

Say what you want about Islam, it is no less believable than Christianity or Judaism. Seriously…

A kid born because an invisible man impregnated a woman? A candle burning for eight crazy days because an invisible man made it so? Gimme a break.

I can’t stand all of the furor over the differing beliefs. I hate it!! But I do know one thing…

One of the cornerstones of this country was that it was built to allow the free, unfettered, practice of religion.

Some Muslims want to build a community center and mosque near the site of the World Trade Center attack. So?

Some “Americans” say, “No way, Muslims are evil!! They should not be allowed to build a place of the Devil’s worship.”

To those nay sayers, I say…

How about this? We’ll build a Catholic Church, a Jewish Temple, and an expansive Evangelical parsonage on the site, and all will be right with God.

Of course, if we do that, we are also doing another thing that may be second only to our love of “the one true God”

That one thing being, peeing and shitting all over our Constitution.

It’s ironic that Tea Baggers and their right wing ilk are behind this movement to stop the building of this Muslim center and mosque, ’cause let me tell ya…

If Jefferson were alive today, he would say to them, “Are you morons fucking crazy?”

Of course then he would say, “Hey Matt-Man? Know any hot, black chicks in the ’hood?”



David said...

Isn't this location a couple of blocks away from ground zero? And really, the jihadists are not really likely to show up for this building...are they?

We are supposed to have freedom of religion in this country. Here in DC that is why we have just about one church on every fricken block of the city.

Matt-Man said...

David: We are the same way. We have churches-o-mania here, and why is one different from the other?

Oh that's right...A church hit the WTC. I forgot that a church, i.e. a mosque hit the WTC and killed everyone. Fucking Dullards. Cheers Mike!!

Jay said...

What kills me is they claim "Oh if it wasn't so close, like maybe a few blocks further away it wouldn't matter."


The thing is 2 blocks away. I could be 15 blocks away and they would be doing and saying the same things. I know this because they're doing and saying the same things about one being built in Tennessee and one being built in Riverside, CA.

Can you imagine the reaction if anyone ever tried to stop a Christian mega-church from being built anywhere in this country? Holy fuck they'd go bonkers screaming about freedom of religion and shit.

Jeff B said...

We were carrying on about this last night.

We decided they should build it, Then the Mexicans could get pissed off about the immigrations laws and blow it up. After another rebuilding of some sort, the Russian mob could get bent and blow that one up. Then the Chinese could blow up the next incarnation with fireworks. . . and so on, and so on. . .

The possibilities of endless hatred in the name of religion and nationality could go on and on for all of time this way.

Mike said...

Jefferson was cool. He was a Deist. Hold on, I'm getting a message. It's from God. I'm supposed to write the first book of Deism. It's a miracle.

Scott Oglesby said...

What I feel that everyone overlooks in the pure racism in the lumping together of an entire group of people. It was not The Muslim People that perpetrated 9-11 it was a few people within Al-Qaeda.

Imagine if the world never got over the whole ‘inquisition thing.’ No one would have allowed a Christian Church on European soil.

Kim said...

Muslims don't scare me, but these off shoot far right (or left) groups scare the hell out of me. They only really want to uphold the constitution if they feel it fits their idea of what society should be.

Freedom to practice religion just doesn't mean Christianity, it means all religions.

Micky-T said...

You really impress me sometimes Matt-Man (just saying).

To label Karen (don't have her link anymore,I stopped going there), a long time blogger and friend of this little bloggerhood as a far right republican in the same ilk of ol' Charlie and his buddies, that impresses me.
You talk straight, and you voice yourself clearly, I like that!

Matt-Man said...

Jay: Exactly right. How far away is far away enough? It's a non-sequitur. It's all about the one true GAWD and the bastardization of Him by dirty, idol worshipping towel heads. Oy. My head hurts. Cheers Jay!!

Jeff: Ha. Your comment is the basis for a great post. Cheers funny man!!

Mike: Ha. Jefferson was da bomb. Well, minus the whole slave holding thing. Cheers Mike!!

Matt-Man said...

Scott: Exacly correct. We were not attacked an entire religion we were attacked by hateful fuckers who have no regard to any inkling of who or what the concept of "God" is. Cheers Scott!!

Kim: Damn right. People suck, and will manipulate anything including the Constitution in order to have their way. Cheers Kim!!

Micky: Wow. Well, thanks Mick. I try to shoot straight even if the gun is pointed at my own head on here from time to time. Cheers Mick!!

Evil Twin's Wife said...

OK - Karen is entitled to her own opinions (opinions this Right Wing Republican agrees with). We lost over 3000 innocent lives at the hands of Muslims. I'm not saying they're all bad people - they're not. But, to build it that close, within viewing distance (you can walk 2 city blocks in NYC in about 3 minutes or less), it IS a slap in the face to all NYers and many other Americans.

I also don't think it's right to single out Karen for her beliefs. That is all.

Dana said...

It's a good thing God forgives pedophiles - I hear there is a Catholic church within 2 blocks of the WTC site!

Matt-Man said...

Evil: Of course Karen is entitled to her own opinions and has voiced them clearly and eloquently on this site often.

Muslims too, at least the last time I checked, have the right to freely and openly practice their religion in the United States of America.

The building of this mosque/community center is not a slap in the face to anyone. It is a middle finger to the rest of the world saying, "In spite of what has happened, our life, liberty and the strength of the God Damn American way of life cannot be put asunder."

It says that this country is free and fears no nation, no terrorist, and will not change the very foundations of liberty upon which it was built because some dickheads attacked us.

Fuck those who cower in fear of another religion and feed on the hate of the building of a mosque. Fuck em.

Cheers ETW!!

Matt-Man said...

Dana: Well that's different, just is. Cheers Dana!!

Karen said...

Hmmm. This sort of caught me off guard to be honest. And I feel a little thrown under the bus...

My opinions on the Mosque and 9-11 have NOTHING to do with my being conservative or Republican or Catholic. They have everything to do with living in NJ, minutes from ground zero. People who live in the safety of Bagwine or Arkansas or Montana can say anything they want, but that shit didn't happen in your backyard, to people who you knew.

On the afternoon of 9-11, I saw men and children dancing, celebrating and setting off fireworks in front of local mosque. I will never get that out of my mind. Those people were celebrating the death and destruction. And the next morning when they hung a banner that said how Muslims were Americans and supported the US, I wanted to vomit.

You can use my words and my thoughts, but I think it only fair to know where my thoughts come from - not because I am evil Republican or a lawyer who doesn't understand the freedoms of religion or speech. The destruction of that day touched me personally and deeply. I felt it and smelled it and wiped soot off my car for weeks. No one who didn't experience it can understand what it was like. And to put a mosque at ground zero is laughable and totally disrespectful.

Matt-Man said...

Karen: On December 7th, 1941 Pearl Harbor was attacked. Most Americans back then did not know who was killed. But it was an attack on the United States not Hawaii.

The attack on the WTC was not an attack on NYC, it was an attack on the Untied States, as was the attack on the Pentagon.

New Yorkers don't "own" this attack. People in D.C. don't "own" this attack. The entirety of Islam does not "own" this attack.

It was perpetrated by evil fanatics, who for whatever reasons hate the Untied States and others.

Their goal is to destroy the United States and if we change what we do and what believe in, they have won.

If we do not allow a religious center to be built whereever the hell it is legally zoned, we are just like every other third rate, oill rich theocracy in the world.

And ironically, that is what you detest.

By blocking the building of this mosque, we become more like the assholes that took all of those lives on 9/11.


Karen said...

Matt - I respectfully disagree. There is no way all American's equally own 9-11. Or Pearl Harbor for that matter. Much like I don't equally share in the tragedy of Katrina with the those who lived in NOLA.

You watching it on TV doesn't compare to me sitting my front stoop watching the smoke and smelling the chemicals burn. Of course all Americans were effected, but not equally. Not even close.

And if anyone wants me to believe that those attacks were the result of a few bad seeds and not a systemic undertone of the Muslim religion, then they are going to have erase the images of fireworks and celebration from my head. Because that celebration didn't take place in a far away land. I took place in the streets of my home town. And I cannot stand behind giving Muslims a place of honor in the shadows of the destruction that they caused and celebrated.

Matt-Man said...

Karen: Wow...just Wow. Who in the hell is giving Muslims a place of honor? I do not get that.

Okay maybe Hannity, or Palin,or Boortz, or Beck thinks it's a place of honor for Muslims, but none of those fuckers are right in the head.

And serioulsly, comparing Katrina to the attacks and the feelings thereafter of 9/11 and Pearl Harbor is comparing apples to oranges.

The attacks on Pearl harbor and 9/11 were premeditated attacks on this country as a whole by a government and hateful people, Katrina was a indiscrimnate attack by Mother Nature.

Just say it...You hate all Muslims because of 9/11. And that is what this all about. Sad.

Cheers Karen!!

Dana said...

I am a little frustrated with the "superior" attitude of those in and around NYC - that somehow they suffered the most when the WTC was attacked. It's not a fair nor logical assumption.

I was working for the Occupational Health & Environmental Safety division of 3M at the time - in a call center. For the first month after the attack on the WTC I was taking 150-200 call a day from people who were afraid for their lives, looking for something - anything - that would help protect them from inhaling the biological and chemical weapons they were certain would follow.

I talked to mothers, through their sobs, who wanted to protect their children. I talked to doctors who wanted to insure they would live through another attack to treat the injured. I talked to elderly people who were duct taping the cracks in their windows and doors and were afraid to leave their homes.

The emotional trauma of being in that call center, during that time, was so significant that 3M hired crisis counselors to be on hand 24/7 for the first 30 days and on-call for another 60 days afterward. I talked - directly - to 4000+ people from Bagwine, Arkansas, Montana, NYC, NJ and all points in between. I heard their stories (they always wanted to share their stories). I cried. I was called names and screamed at. I would hang up from one call and another would immediately come through to be answered.

Don't tell me I did not equally share in the 9-11 tragedy because I was sitting in a call center in MN - I know better.

leelee said...

"Say what you want about Islam, it is no less believable than Christianity or Judaism. Seriously…"

I couldn't agree more with your whole essay!


Matt-Man said...

Dana: Well said...It was an attack on this COUNTRY not NYC. Funny, I didn't hear mention about the attack on the Pentagon.

That's In Washington, ya know.

Maybe we shold ask every embassy that houses a Muslim theocracy to leave. D'oh...we need their oil, just not their religion.

Cheers Dana!!

Karen said...

Matt - I absolutely do not hate all Muslims. But you put words in my mouth already today so you can just continue if you'd like.

Katrina is a fair comparison as it relates to impact of a tragedy on a particular region.

And Dana - I don't find that I have a superior attitude. I don't feel superior to you in anyway. I fact, I feel that I am more at a disadvantage by choosing to live where there is no buffer of safety.

But that being said, I don't care how much someone thinks they can relate to an experience, unless they experienced it, they can't know.

We can have fear and empathy and sympathy, but we will never know what others went through. You don't know what it was like here, and I don't know what it was like in your home town. But it is a fallacy to believe the people who were personally touched and physically effected by the tragedy didn't suffer more than those who watched on TV and cried from the safety of their sofas.

You posted today about woman who lost children in a fire. I can feel for that woman and cry for her family, but I will never know what she experienced.

Matt-Man said...

Leelee: Wow. Thanks for chiming in, adorable one. Hope all is well. Cheers Leelee!!

Matt-Man said...

Karen: The Katrina/9-11 allegory applies not at all. I am certain you took Logic in law school. They are as I mentioned, two different things.

And you say you have no buffer of safety? Puleeeeze. NYC is guarded tighter than the actual number of Sarah Palin's IQ score.

Karen, many New York City residents cried too from the "safety of their sofas", that does not mean they weren't affected.

And you are missing the point, it's about our greatness as a country rising up beyond the insidiousness of bad people and holdng on to what this country was built upon.


Death is death. Tyranny is tyranny. I need not have been in NYC on 9-11 to know the horror and pain of that.

Dana said...


"Superior" wasn't the right word (which was why I put in quotes) but I'm not sure I can find the right word. It just seems that when I talk to anyone within a 100 or so mile radius of the WTC site, they communicate that their feelings are deeper, more justified if you will, because they were there. Often times they minimize the impact of the attack on others outside of the greater NYC area. That's what I meant by "superior" and it sure sounded like you did the very same thing in your initial comment. Maybe I'm reading into it wrong.

I agree, I don't *know* what it was like to be in NYC (and surrounding areas) on that day, but that doesn't make my opinion on - specifically the Muslim Community Center/Mosque - any less valid.

Marilyn said...

I've been thinking about the issue and finally decided that it really makes no difference to me. You're right about the constitution but I just can't get up the energy anymore to yell at the right wing idiots about hypocrisy of claiming to be patriots while destroying what we stand for.

Phfrankie "God" Bondo said...

...sheer, unadulterated bigotry and the most anti-christian attitude there could ever be...

Mike said...

"no buffer of safety"
Really? The Atlantic Ocean isn't big enough for you? Maybe you could move to Oklahoma City and feel really safe.

Knight said...

I'm almost afraid to admit that I live in Manhattan and have Muslim friends. I might be burned on a cross.

Good people want to practice their religion. It's two blocks away and not on the actual site. What would be an appropriate distance, another state? Another country? "Go back where they came from"?

Matt-Man said...

Dana: I shall let you two duke it out on your own. It's hot. Cheers Dana!!

Marilyn: I feel like that many times but fell the need to speak out anyway. Cheers Marilyn!!

P-Man: In word...I agree whole-heartedly. Cheers P-Man!!

Matt-Man said...

Mike: Good point, my good man. Cheers Mike!!

Knight: Very well said and I agree....where is the line drawn. How far? Good to see you as always. Hope you are doing well lovely one. Cheers Knight!!

Raquel's World said...

Wow, look what happens when I take a day off from the blog site. You guys ain't playing around. I have to agree with Matt-Man's opinion just because I often watch the Fox guys and listen to Rush radio and generally do not believe in the majority of their opinions, I do find the shows quite entertaining. It is always interesting to see how others think. And my feeling on this whole thing is that it is great that it invokes such serious feelings from so many and it's great that we can all get on here or anywhere and say what we want without having to fear for our lives. I definitely do not think that Matt-Man or Dana were trying to throw Karen under the bus, I just think that you each have apparently very strong feelings that are valid on the situation and the opinions vary. Which is why I FUCKIN LOVE THE GOOD OLE USA!

Matt-Man said...

Raquel: Ha. Why thanks and I chuckle because you don't strike me as a person who says "fuck" but you do it with frequency and such elan.

And let me tell ya missy, I listen to Rush, Hannity and other right wing talking heads as much as I do the liberal talking heads as well.

And you're right. America is one fucking great place in which to live. Cheers Roc : )!!

Raquel's World said...

Oh Please, I go from a proper speaking, delicate childcare manager/PTA mom to a smoking cursing bitch in a New York minute! That's what makes me so fun. It's really funny when I forget which one I am and the cursing lady shows up at a PTA meeting or the polite lady shows up to the bar. You just never know.

Matt-Man said...

Raquel: Ha. And that, is a wonderful quality to have. Keep on rockin', cussin', and PTA'in. Cheers Roc!!

Lu' said...

...I can understand what Karen says about being there and the experience being different for those directly in the wake. It's like it hit HOME and their country. I also feel a lot of those people in close proximity to the tragedy minimize it's affect on the rest of the nation just be cause we weren't in NYC or Jersey.

Ya know sometimes there might be something not so right about being an open door nation...